00:00:25:00 - 00:00:45:16
Jennifer
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers. I'm your host, Jennifer Loehding. And we are talking to the achievers, the creators, the magic makers and the dreamers. These are our friends. These are your friends. And they are living the extraordinary. Well, here we are. Another episode super excited about my guest today. Phebe Trotman is a success star and heart centered entrepreneur.

00:00:45:20 - 00:01:14:19
Jennifer
She's out of Canada, which is kind of fun. She's passionate about helping others discover their joy in both her athletic and professional career. Phebe personal success has been a testament that anything is possible with hard work, dedication and a team centered approach. As an athlete, she's achieved many acting accolades as a soccer player, which I am so excited to chat with you about that, including being inducted into several Sports Hall of Fame's winning championship titles and being recognized as an exceptional athlete.

00:01:15:03 - 00:01:35:04
Jennifer
And she's also excelled in her career as a network marketer, which is also in my background. So I'm excited to chat with you about that. Earning some top awards and recognition within her company. So before we welcome her on, we want to do a quick shout out to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Walt Mill’s Productions Need to add excitement to your YouTube videos or some expert hands for editing.

00:01:35:04 - 00:01:56:06
Jennifer
Look no further. Walt Mills is the solution you've been searching for. Walt is not only your go to guy for spicing up content, he's the force behind a thriving film production company with numerous titles in the pipeline. Always on the lookout for raw talent. Walt is eager to collaborate on film and Internet productions with a background deeply rooted in entertainment and promotion.

00:01:56:07 - 00:02:13:16
Jennifer
Walt Mills leverages years of skills to give you the spotlight you deserve. Want to learn more about Walt and his work? Head on over to Walt Mills Productions dot net and let your content shine. All right. So with that, Phebe I want to welcome you to the show. We are so excited to have you here today.

00:02:14:05 - 00:02:21:20
Phebe
Thank you so much, Jennifer. I've been looking forward to this conversation and I love what you do. And behind the dreamers, I mean, I love to dream. So this will be fun. Looking forward to it.

00:02:21:20 - 00:02:37:04
Jennifer
I know. Isn't it great dreamers? I know. It's so fun. You know, we get taught, I think, in life to squash our dreams, you know, like we get taught to be practical. Don't be dreamers. And, you know, one of the things I love about Behind the Dreamers is I get to talk to people that are still kind of dreamers.

00:02:37:04 - 00:02:53:11
Jennifer
We get to still talk about those things. And it's so funny, right before the show, I was talking to a guy and we were talking about how it's I forgot what the words that he used, but we were talking about how it's kind of like magical to be like a dreamer about things. But we have to take those dreams and actually put them into action.

00:02:53:11 - 00:03:01:19
Jennifer
Right, and implement. And so we were having a phone conversation about that, but I'm excited to chat with you. I think this can be a great show. And so we're going to we're going to dove into this thing.

00:03:02:11 - 00:03:05:14
Phebe
Let's do it. Let's do it. So where do you want to start? How should we start? All right.

00:03:05:14 - 00:03:24:02
Jennifer
I'm gonna tell you. All right, so, Phoebe, tell us a little bit. I want to know what you're doing. I know you share this with me, but for our our audience, because I know you're into the network marketing space. So tell us a little bit about how you navigated into that, because I always feel like these are stories that either something happened, we were doing something, we saw something, or what was kind of that that bridge way to get you into that?

00:03:24:11 - 00:03:40:15
Phebe
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's funny, I kind of grew up around network marketing. My mom had a home based business when I was young. And so I always you know, she did well in it in terms of being on stage and awards. And so I knew there was always a possibility of what can be achieved in network marketing. That being said, I never I was the friend who would go to everyone's parties.

00:03:40:15 - 00:04:01:14
Phebe
I was always like, someone's having a party, sure, I'll be there. Why not? And just supporting people, because network marketing has incredible products, right? So I was often, you know, had a lot of different products in my home. However, I never found a product that really I wanted to necessarily build as a business. And after soccer, I was working full time at on a computer company and I was really uninspired.

00:04:01:14 - 00:04:19:23
Phebe
So I did start a few side projects. I started a coaching company with my background in soccer, and I was actually using a network marketing product to help to promote that company. That being said, I wasn't building as a business and in my head all these side projects I had when the income from those became high enough, I would leave my full time job.

00:04:20:08 - 00:04:41:06
Phebe
However, life had other plans and the company I was working for went bankrupt. I was laid off and I was kind of in that crossroads where it was like, okay, well, what next? And when I looked forward now is encourage people to do this. When you have a moment to pause or take time to pause, figure out how to do that, look for it in terms of what you want your life to look like and I knew I wanted to have something I could build from anywhere.

00:04:41:06 - 00:04:52:23
Phebe
I loved being around a team and working together again with my background in sports. And so I decided to build the product I was already using, build it as a actual business. And here we are 18 years later.

00:04:53:16 - 00:05:14:14
Jennifer
Wow. Wow. I know I shared with you that I spent 22 years, actually, probably more than 20 years. I'm still technically signed up in a network marketing company, but actively working almost 22 years in the Mary Kay world. And so I understand, I say I can resonate with you on the, you know, understanding about the team building and representing the product and selling.

00:05:14:14 - 00:05:31:05
Jennifer
And I think one of the really neat things I don't know about you, but where I'm coming from, I was a young mom when I started in that space, and for me, it really afforded me the flexibility. A couple of things. One that gave me autonomy, which I absolutely I'm like to beat the bone drop. I like the autonomy.

00:05:31:14 - 00:05:49:06
Jennifer
But I also really appreciated that it allowed me to be home with my kids. And so, you know, even though I'm married, my husband makes good money. I also it was nice to have that extra income coming in, but also to be with my children while I was doing that. So for me, you know, I was able to be a stay at home mom for all three of my kids.

00:05:49:06 - 00:06:02:09
Jennifer
My youngest is now 20, my oldest is 27, will be 28 this year. So I was able to stay with them the entire time and do that on a very, you know, part time to full time basis. And I was okay with that. I liked it.

00:06:03:03 - 00:06:28:01
Phebe
Yeah. And that's one of the beautiful things about it is it does give you that flexibility. And that was always my goal was like when I become a mom, I want to be able to stay at home. And, you know, the motherhood route took different turns and twists. That being said, I've worked with so many moms who that's what they've been able to do or I should say parents in general, because it does give you that flexibility to create your own schedule and to, you know, depending on your household income or what you want to achieve, there's opportunities there for everyone.

00:06:28:01 - 00:06:45:12
Phebe
And that's one of the beautiful things about it. And I also say, you know, it's so much bigger than just the income. It's the people, the person you grow into and just how it can help you grow in terms of a positive mindset and to help you cultivate those dreams and put some of the action behind it, which is so important when you want to go after your goals and dreams.

00:06:46:06 - 00:07:06:07
Jennifer
Yeah, well, and I think a lot of times I know we talked about this, you know, prior we have a very long conversation. I think it gets such it I feel like it gets a bad rap a lot of times because people hear network marketing or ad network marketing, right. And they run. But for the people that, you know, I've interviewed several different people, you know, in the Mary Kay world and another companies on this particular show.

00:07:06:07 - 00:07:36:10
Jennifer
And these are top earners like the one at the Millionaire Club people, you know, people are doing really well. But even for those people that don't hit that level and I know you can attest to this, is that you just mentioned it there so much more that you gain from that. I, you know, I, I have often said that, you know, had I not gone through those 20 something years in that in that space of learning and mentorship and all of the things, I would not have developed the way I may never develop the leadership skills.

00:07:36:10 - 00:07:54:00
Jennifer
We may be doing this podcast today because I was freakin shy for many years in the beginning of that, and I would have never gotten in front of people and talked. So you develop a lot of things besides just the monetary, you know, the ROI of the monies, the money coming in. There's a leadership that's in that you have invaluable resources, you have mentorship.

00:07:54:00 - 00:08:08:23
Jennifer
I mean, I'm going to say one more thing and then I want you to talk. But when I sort of bridged way out of my network marketing, it was not because I hated the company. I just wanted to do something different in my career. I did it for a while. I was looking for a different path. But I will tell you, I network a lot here and I'm in the Dallas area.

00:08:08:23 - 00:08:27:12
Jennifer
There's a lot of networking. I did not realize how important that mentorship was until I started getting into the outside world. In real life, people don't know what it is like to even have mentors like we just have them. And we didn't pay for that. We had them as part of periphery and what we did, you know, they were there.

00:08:27:22 - 00:08:44:21
Jennifer
So I think there's a lot that is valuable about it and you can learn a lot of good sales, leadership skills, booking skills, oh my gosh. Booking skills. You know when to cut people loose, when to book a book, how to get them to show up. And if they when they're not, just let it go.

00:08:45:16 - 00:09:03:12
Phebe
Totally. You learn so much more. And I mean, I I'm with you like I believe there's so many great skills that you learn in a network marketing environment and just like anything, you know, yeah, it gets a bad rap with a lot of so to a lot of professions depending on is good and bad in everything and every single profession we can look at.

00:09:03:20 - 00:09:21:12
Phebe
So I just encourage people to, you know, be open, see where it takes you. I'm with you. I like I'm not necessarily active in the company that I built. I still use the service I love the company there. And just like you, I think one of the beautiful things is as we grow, we start. We want to you know, a lot of people I shouldn't say everyone, but a lot of people like to be continued challenge.

00:09:21:12 - 00:09:41:04
Phebe
And I'm one of those people who it's like, I like to grow, I like to be challenged. And so I get excited when I can start kind of the next phase or chapter, if you will, in life. But you take the skills that you've learned in past professions, whatever that may be. Just like I've taken what I learned as an athlete over into network marketing, over in to be an author like it, you just continue to evolve as a person.

00:09:41:04 - 00:09:54:00
Phebe
And so network marketing, I mean, it's a great foundation for, for a lot of next things that you can build upon. And so I'm grateful for the profession because I definitely learned a lot and I'm the person I am today because of everything that I've learned along those years.

00:09:54:20 - 00:10:10:00
Jennifer
I think listening to you about what you said is, you know, your mom was doing this, you know, when you were a child. So we've always said, you know, more is court than talk, right? Like kids pick up on the things that are going on. And, you know, and I always say like, you know, all those I don't know about you where you're at with this.

00:10:10:00 - 00:10:33:20
Jennifer
But I would say, at least in my journey, that I hope my kids learn something. You know, they learned the value of hard work. They learn the value of being positive. And I will say this, you know, they don't always show in my house those behaviors, but I will hear them talking to other people and I will realize that they have some of that lingo that that, you know, that language that they heard me saying to my team and to the people that I was with.

00:10:34:01 - 00:10:53:08
Jennifer
And it's interesting because I still do a lot of that language in with people in the other areas of my life. When I'm working with them, I still feel the need to praise people and recognize them and let them shine. And, you know, because that's what I did for so many years. And I realized how important that was because it's not something we always get.

00:10:53:08 - 00:11:01:10
Jennifer
But you got to see that with your mother. You got to see her doing some of those things, and then you've got to to be able to sort of experience that for yourself.

00:11:02:03 - 00:11:25:14
Phebe
Yeah. And I'm so grateful for my upbringing. Both my mom and dad, very big into personal development and growth. My dad was an instructor for the Dale Carnegie training, so I always grew up around, you know, seeing them read books and attending leadership and personal growth events. And it's funny because I joke because I see it's so irritated because all the time in our car there'd be something positive playing and I'd be like, Can we just listen to music like everybody else, you know?

00:11:25:23 - 00:11:45:20
Phebe
And now in hindsight, I'm so grateful because there are things that just naturally kind of came out of me, you know, in different ways, but it was because of that foundation. So I always encourage parents. Yes, your children do hear and see what you're doing. And even if they push back, which I did for a lot of years, I just push back on it.

00:11:46:00 - 00:12:08:06
Phebe
But it was a seed that was planted. And so it's just it's so powerful and it's so interesting now being in a space where I'm working with people, helping them, encouraging them, and just I'm so grateful because I've had so many lessons and so many things that I've learned along the way from my parents on how they handled certain situations that my older brother and I went through, that they handled them with a growth mindset and it just it truly has set us up.

00:12:08:06 - 00:12:08:13
Phebe
Well.

00:12:09:10 - 00:12:35:16
Jennifer
Yeah, I love that vibe and and I'm glad for you that you were in that environment because what a difference that makes. I mean, you know, it's interesting because I think so many people are not that way and they they stop learning. And I was just having this conversation with my husband. And when we walk our dogs at six in the morning every day, and sometimes we have these conversations and I was actually talking about Twitter X, whatever you want to call it.

00:12:35:16 - 00:12:52:22
Jennifer
I was talking about that because I get in there to kind of see what's happening, you know, on the political scape, which every time I get in there, Phoebe, feedback come out, I'm agitated, but it amazes me. I'm like, You want to learn a lot about people. Get in there and look at the comments, the way people talk to each other, the way people, the types of things they say.

00:12:52:22 - 00:13:09:07
Jennifer
And I realize today I'm in the middle of reading one of John Maxwell's, his latest book on how to be a great communicator. He's one of my favorite. I'm reading this and he's talking about all these different things about like, if you want to be a good communicator, you got to believe it. And all of these things. And I'm like it.

00:13:09:17 - 00:13:37:23
Jennifer
It's so true that whatever we're exposed to is how we how we operate, like, right? Like the circle of influence. And however we were brought up, what we saw makes such a difference later on in life. And if you didn't have that, you have to work so hard to to negate all of that stuff that you had. And it's not because parents, I think, are bad or I think it's just what they know.

00:13:38:07 - 00:13:53:23
Jennifer
Your parents were in a good at whatever reason. I don't know how we're how they ended up where they were, but I love it because that I wish that I say this because my kids saw me do this from a very early age. They saw me from the very beginning in this environment. But I didn't have that growing up in my barn.

00:13:54:00 - 00:14:11:23
Jennifer
My sister and I didn't have that. And we've had to work really hard. I love my parents, but we've had to work really hard. At deconditioning, a lot of our thought process is right. That scarcity mindset moving into abundance mindset. Now, it's funny because I've been doing this so long now that for the most part people probably think my head's in the clouds.

00:14:12:00 - 00:14:30:14
Jennifer
I have to have. No, it's no, I see what's going on, but I try to find the bright side in everything that I do, because I think there's always a lesson to be learned, you know? But I just love this story with you because I think, wow, your parents really did these things that ingrain some good belief systems in you guys going forward.

00:14:30:14 - 00:14:35:09
Jennifer
And that's stuff that you can just carry on from generation to generation to generation.

00:14:35:18 - 00:14:51:16
Phebe
Absolutely. One of the things that I think is so key, and you touched on it in your story and I was going to share it with my parent is it was a choice. It wasn't necessarily what they saw in their parents. They made a conscious choice. Right. And just like you shared with your with your upbringing, like you made a conscious choice.

00:14:51:16 - 00:15:09:23
Phebe
And I think that's one thing that's so important for us to remember. We have choices. And I say, like, it's in our choices that champions are made because you can choose whatever you want to do going forward. And yes, it's true, you know, sometimes with depending on how the foundation was laid as a young child, what you might have to choose and remove.

00:15:09:23 - 00:15:28:09
Phebe
And and just even though my parents laid a strong foundation in terms of certain things, there are still certain other pieces that I've had to learn and continue to push through to get to that growth. And that's where it's a choice. And so regardless of wherever someone is starting right now who's listening, it just takes one choice. It takes one just taking a step forward.

00:15:28:09 - 00:15:47:02
Phebe
Maybe it's starting with a good book. It's listening to this podcast. It's, you know, plugging into training and just continuing to surround yourself because so much of what we see is negative, that it is key for us to be able to continue to plug into positivity. And that is what will continue to come out of you with time.

00:15:47:17 - 00:15:48:02
Phebe
Yeah.

00:15:48:11 - 00:16:11:11
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00:16:51:13 - 00:17:04:21
Jennifer
I agree with you. VB, I agree and I think it's a it is it's a continual process because we all have still have things we have to deprogram and you know, we have belief systems because it's not just our parents are the only influences in our life. We go to school, we have, you know, media, all these things at us all the time.

00:17:05:03 - 00:17:23:06
Jennifer
But I think the really you said important thing is that conscious decision to make the change. Right. But I think the net, like you said, the next step further is to recognize that this is going to continue the continual process. It's not a hey, I read a book, I'm done today. I learned something and no more. No, it is a continual and I will tell you, like I love to read.

00:17:23:11 - 00:17:42:05
Jennifer
I didn't always like to read. I didn't always I do now. And I find that when I'm not reading, I get very stagnant in my thinking. I start to find myself going down a rabbit hole that I don't like. And so then I'm like, okay, we need to get a book out. We need to get going. So right now I'm reading John Maxwell and Happy about a communicator and I love it.

00:17:42:05 - 00:17:59:16
Jennifer
It's so great. Like I read, I read a couple of weeks ago, I finished up reading Jamie. Jamie currently Emma's book Worthy. Oh my gosh. Great book. Awesome awesome book finish that would I've been I've read my next one I read was Brain Blue by James Bond How to Make Things Sticky Like your marketing campaign stick. Learn some cool things in there, you know.

00:17:59:21 - 00:18:23:23
Jennifer
And so I feel like we just have to say that make the conscious choice to continue to keep doing things to better ourselves because it's not just about us. It's about all the people that come into our lives. When we make ourselves better, then we give permission to other people to also treat us differently, show up differently, and also the opportunity to see that they can they can also do things to to fix their situations.

00:18:24:10 - 00:18:38:17
Phebe
Absolutely. Just being intentional with it. Right. And I love what you share. I'm very similar. I love to read and I've noticed that as well, too. When I when I don't take that time. And again, it's a choice we have. We all have choices. We all have a certain amount of time. It's what we're doing with that time.

00:18:38:17 - 00:18:56:22
Phebe
And so plugging into good books and listening to positivity, you know, whether it's when you're working out, whether when you're in your car, like how can you just make and what it is, is it's just replacing something that you're already doing with something else, right? Just making those small little ships and it's so small, little shifts over time that will have a huge impact.

00:18:56:22 - 00:19:10:17
Phebe
But it does start with just making one little shift. And I encourage people, it's like, Yeah, just start with reading a couple pages, right? Sometimes, you know, they say if you read ten pages a day, how much you can read. But for some people it's like, Whoa, ten pages. I don't even know where to start. Start with two pages.

00:19:10:22 - 00:19:17:08
Phebe
That's okay. You're making that intentional choice to move forward with something small and you'll see how it'll grow with time.

00:19:17:22 - 00:19:34:09
Jennifer
I like that, VB, VB, I agree. I like it. Small changes and I talk about all that all the time. We don't want to set ourselves up for failure, so how can we create win, start small, build yourself up. Right, good. So and I can hear all this athletic mindset stuff coming through and I think I shared with you my daughter was I had to call all three.

00:19:34:09 - 00:19:52:16
Jennifer
My kids play soccer at different times. Middle child was select soccer, thought she was going to do that for a while and then she decided kind of around high school, she wanted to go into cross-country and track and so went into running and did that for a while. And so I love this. I would love to know, you know, you said a lot of good things about the, you know, athletic and bringing it into the work that you're doing now.

00:19:52:16 - 00:20:01:13
Jennifer
But maybe, you know, what are some key things that you really felt like in that space has really helped you today, like with what you're doing now?

00:20:03:00 - 00:20:17:12
Phebe
You know, it's interesting because I joke when I started in my network marketing business and when I was like, okay, I'm doing this as a business, I actually didn't bring over some of that athletic mindset. And one of the things was I wasn't consistent. Like when I first when I got laid off, there was a rollercoaster of emotions.

00:20:17:22 - 00:20:29:21
Phebe
One of them that I was excited because I was like, Oh, I don't have to work now. I'm going to entrepreneur. And so I like work one day. And then I'd be like, I need to work for the next two days. Like that was what my idea of being an entrepreneur was. And so I didn't have very good results.

00:20:29:21 - 00:20:59:16
Phebe
And it wasn't until I started to actually look at it from an athletic standpoint, like, what did I do to create success on the field? Well, it was all the things I did off the field, if you will, like behind the scenes to help me perform and being consistent. And so once I was able to bring that over in terms of what being coachable as well, I was used to having coaches, I was used to, you know, looking in the mirror, having that kind of tough love conversation with myself as an athlete, what can I do better owning that, becoming accountable to, you know, setting a goal and going after it, being consistent.

00:20:59:21 - 00:21:17:20
Phebe
And I joke now I am like, if you want to have consistent results as an entrepreneur, we have to have consistent activity in doing the right things, the things that are going to produce the results that you're looking for. And once that kind of hat came on and I realized, okay, what did I do in sports that helped me over do this, let me bring it over here.

00:21:17:21 - 00:21:37:04
Phebe
That's when I started to have those results that I was looking for and continue to grow. And a big piece of it was at the time, you know, being patient and I am I'm working on my patients. But, you know, as go getters, we like to have things now. It's like, okay, we did something we want the result not realizing that everything has, you know, a growing period, if you will.

00:21:37:04 - 00:21:55:00
Phebe
And when you plant that seed, you're not going to necessarily get that harvest right away. And so I, you know, started teaching my team. It's like if you want to celebrate the harvest, you have to celebrate planting the seed in the sense of be consistent with what you need to do to create those results that you're looking to have.

00:21:55:00 - 00:22:09:02
Jennifer
Yeah, no, it's good. And I think we all have those, you know, go to those moments where we have to I guess maybe we said it's like a coming to Jesus moment where we realize we're going to have to do the work, like we're going to have to do the things, you know, if we want things to happen the way we want them to happen.

00:22:09:02 - 00:22:27:18
Jennifer
Right. You know, but I do think sometimes there's entrepreneurs. We do get into that mindset. We're like, I'm an entrepreneur now and I can kind of do what I want to do until, like you said, you realize nothing's happened, right? We always have to say like nothing happens until you sell something. You got to start selling, right? I mean, there's all the processes up to that, but you actually got to make a sale to make anything happen.

00:22:27:18 - 00:22:28:17
Jennifer
So. Yeah, and.

00:22:29:14 - 00:22:49:14
Phebe
I was sorry. Are you going to say also doing the stuff sometimes that you don't necessarily want to do, right? Yeah, there are those things like as an athlete, like I didn't necessarily love fitness in the sense of doing sprints and that piece of soccer. I love to just play the game that being said, conditioning is a big part of how it's going to help you perform in a game, and it's the same thing in doing a business.

00:22:49:14 - 00:23:08:16
Phebe
There are going to be certain tasks that you may not love to do. However, it's essential to get the result. And so focusing on how can I make it fun? You know, I'm a big love to have fun with stuff, so I would create a lot of contests and incentives and things like that for my team, and I do the same now for my own personal stuff in terms of like writing, I make it fun.

00:23:08:16 - 00:23:15:06
Phebe
Okay, well, when this book is released, this is how I'm going to reward myself and different things to add that fun element into it as well too.

00:23:15:22 - 00:23:21:07
Jennifer
Yeah, that's great. View me. So what's next? What's on the horizon? Like what's what's happening right now with TV in your world?

00:23:21:15 - 00:23:40:09
Phebe
Yeah. So I just released the second book in a book series called Never Quit on a Bad Day Inspiring Stories of Resilience. So the first book came out last year and getting incredible reviews from now, and that's featuring short stories from thriving entrepreneurs. And this one just came out a few weeks ago now, and it's featuring stories from accomplished athletes.

00:23:40:09 - 00:23:57:12
Phebe
And it's really all about, as we're talking about, how do you continue to stay inspired and, you know, encourage through those tough times? And one of the main motivations for writing the book was I really wanted to share the story behind the story because I find so often people will see someone and they'll be like, well, that's good for them.

00:23:57:12 - 00:24:13:22
Phebe
And, you know, they don't realize all the tough stuff that person went through and had to grow through to get to where they are. And so the goal with the book is to shed a little bit of light about the story behind the story. And most importantly, what did that person do to work through that tough time to get to the other side?

00:24:13:22 - 00:24:31:08
Phebe
Because even though our situations may not be the same, the tough stuff we go through, there's still strategies, if you will, perspective or ideas, things that we can carry over to help us when we are going through those tough things. And that's what the book really does, shed light on to the scared.

00:24:31:08 - 00:24:52:11
Jennifer
So I had a mentor that I worked with for a couple of years, one of my many I wish I had a mentor and that was one of my many mentors, but I had this one for two years and he always used to say that which is most personal is universal. So like, in other words, what we always think our stuff is an isolated thing, but it's really kind of universal if you really look at the main things and not all the little pieces around it, but the main themes are always universal.

00:24:52:11 - 00:25:14:11
Jennifer
All right. And so when you think about you kind of said, you know, this these and entrepreneurs that you interviewed, you wanted to talk about their stories behind it, the universal stories they had to go through something hard to get to success. Right. The story, the details around the story may be isolated or particular to their story, but the universal message is I had to go through something hard to get where they are today.

00:25:14:11 - 00:25:37:06
Jennifer
And I love that you did that. I think that's a lot. I think you and I are doing some similar things. And I think that that's what excites me, too, is really seeing people shine and do things and go through things and come out on the other side, whether it's an athlete or somebody going through some hard these or whether it's a business something or somebody making that, you know, that transition or I call it maybe I don't know.

00:25:37:06 - 00:25:41:21
Jennifer
What are you saying? Like this, this journey they're going through, like this butterfly and metamorphosis, you know?

00:25:42:14 - 00:25:56:09
Phebe
Yeah. Because we all go through it, right? We all go through it. And it's it kind of again, as we circle back, it's those choices, right? What do we choose to learn from it? How do we choose to move forward from it? What do we choose to? How can we help someone else through something that they're going through as well, too?

00:25:56:09 - 00:26:10:16
Phebe
And so it's really been a lot of fun in terms of, you know, creating this book series. And as I said, it's about that continually evolving and growing and just to be able to help other people a little bit on their journey, just by sharing some insight and some stories of what other people have gone through.

00:26:11:04 - 00:26:32:08
Jennifer
Yeah, but I want to ask you a question about the book writing process. Just because I know somebody on here may want to write a book, I know I wrote one. And it was hard. I mean, it was is it because I'm not patient is part of the problem and I don't know about you, but for me, when I was composing mine, the hardest part was the outline because I had to get sort of an order together of how I wanted this to go.

00:26:32:08 - 00:26:47:06
Jennifer
And I like to just if I want to write it, sit down, write like I want to write, you know, if you got to have a flow of things, right? And so for me, that was the hardest part. Once I had that and I got help with that, I had somebody help me with that. But once I got that, the other parts were a little easier to fill in.

00:26:47:06 - 00:26:56:13
Jennifer
So I'd like to know from you because you've done a couple now, you've done more than one. And so what was maybe the challenge, the most challenging part for you in that in that process.

00:26:58:01 - 00:27:13:09
Phebe
The most challenging part, yeah. You know what part of it was? The first book really flowed. It came together very quickly. Again, I had help. I'm a big team person and so I knew when I was starting this process of, you know, I got excited about the idea and the theme and what I wanted it to look like.

00:27:13:09 - 00:27:31:17
Phebe
And I had a clear vision in terms of that piece, the actual breakdown of how to do it. That's when I went to people who knew how to do that, right? Again, learning and being coachable and finding people who could help along the way. And so that really came together. And in my mind, I had a vision that I would finish the first book and then the next book right away I would start it, right?

00:27:32:00 - 00:27:47:16
Phebe
That was kind of my thought process and had some personal things that I was going through in terms of family have now become caregiver for my mom. And so it was a huge shift and I had to really just pause and stop everything in a lot of ways. And it was hard and it is still very hard and very challenging.

00:27:47:16 - 00:28:08:00
Phebe
So I found getting the mental clarity to start the next book was probably the hardest piece of it all because of everything else that was going on. And I really had to just give myself permission to slow down, to really go, okay, what is the priority right now in this particular season of life? And it was and is still, you know, getting making sure my mom is good and everything along those lines.

00:28:08:00 - 00:28:19:14
Phebe
And then once, you know, things settled a little bit, then it was like, okay, I can do this. And I just started writing in. And then it did come together very, very quickly with some incredible athletes who are contributing.

00:28:20:01 - 00:28:42:18
Jennifer
Okay. So yes. And so as far as the book goes, I was going to say on the mental clarity part that, yes, I think that when you try to force something and you're not in the right space to do it, it just doesn't work. And I think this is on every level. You know, I had these conversations because we're even on fitness, you know, like I really because I've been going through some health stuff, I've been trying to get myself back in alignment.

00:28:42:18 - 00:29:01:09
Jennifer
It's weird because it's not norm. It's like inflammatory stuff. It's not like, you know, heart disease, that kind of stuff. Because I'm healthy, I work out right. But what I've had to do is I've had to learn just speaking on that on a level of the body when I don't feel like I can go out and run 2 to 3 miles today we're not going to run two and three miles today.

00:29:01:09 - 00:29:20:06
Jennifer
I got to be in the right mindset, in the right physicality, right. So I think that what you're saying about this whole process is where are your priorities? And if at this moment it needs to be here? And if in this in my case, it's making sure my health is right, not overdoing it because I want to push I want to be, you know, like I want to be able to run my thing, you know.

00:29:20:10 - 00:29:39:09
Jennifer
So I think it's listening to where you need to be, where your priorities are at in that moment. And when you're when you can come back to that space in a healthy frame of mind. And also. Right, get your nervous system regulated. I like to talk about that one, because part of the reason we can't do it when you do is because we're disregulated, right?

00:29:39:13 - 00:29:44:06
Jennifer
Get that right. Then you can do what you just did. Get in there and then it starts flowing. Yeah.

00:29:44:08 - 00:29:59:00
Phebe
And it's important to give yourself that grace too because I do know like that was a tough one because I was, I was really forcing it. I was like, Oh, I got to do it. And and it was like, wait a second, who says I have to release the second book right now? That was me. That was just me making a decision.

00:29:59:00 - 00:30:20:02
Phebe
Right. And I think that's really important to as you're doing, listening to your body. And what I had to do was just kind of listen and take a moment and take inventory and kind of reflect a little bit. And again, pause, take that moment to pause. And it was just beautiful how everything came together. When I had that clarity and I was able to kind of sit and write how it all came together, and it came together very, very quickly.

00:30:20:02 - 00:30:40:15
Phebe
I mean, I started the process for book number two in January and released it in May because it just it it really it flowed. And, you know, and I'm just grateful to the incredible lineup of athletes who shared their incredible story, because the book is a powerful, powerful read to help people and not just for athletes, but people in general to really go after their goals and dreams.

00:30:41:07 - 00:30:55:06
Jennifer
Score a goal. Congratulations to you on that awesome thing. And I know when you're ink, it's much easier to work in. You're in the right frame of mind and and anybody listening to this, because most people, I'm sure, that are listening this are probably in their mind, some kind of achiever wanting to do something. You said some great things.

00:30:55:06 - 00:31:16:16
Jennifer
Sometimes we just have to pause. We've got to stop putting these these unacceptable and unacceptable, unacceptable metrics on ourself and setting ourselves up for failure. Right. Doesn't mean we don't set goals. It doesn't mean we don't want to achieve. It just means doing things in a way that you're not going to kill yourself in the process. Right. And you're not compromising the things that are important to you to do it right.

00:31:17:11 - 00:31:36:15
Jennifer
One so one of my question I want to ask you said so many great things here. I know we're both like bopping around. I'm like, I'm getting warm. I got to move around, get too excited. I want to know what you said. And I think we could sum this up because I think you've said a lot, but I'd love to know just any final things that you would say that you learned about yourself in all of this?

00:31:38:00 - 00:31:59:21
Phebe
Have I learned about myself? Oh, that's a great question. I would just say, you know, a couple of things. One, the power of surrounding yourself with great people. Like I was speaking at an event the other day and I talked about engines and anchors, how the people that we have in our life can either, you know, be engines in terms of propel us forward in our goals and dreams, or they can be anchors and kind of hold us back in some ways.

00:31:59:21 - 00:32:25:18
Phebe
And one of the things that I mean, this book series truly is here because of engines that I've had in my life that had, you know, they're the ones to great friends suggested to write a book. And I was like, I don't know. And, you know, with their encouragement. And then I got super excited about it. And now knowing that this is what is meant to happen in this next chapter and season of life, to be able to share, you know, some of the lessons that I've learned along my journey as an athlete and as an entrepreneur and putting an end to.

00:32:25:18 - 00:32:40:17
Phebe
So just really be careful, you know, again, who are you surround yourself with? Who do you share your goals and dreams with? And not to say anchor still several place in your life and I have a lot of and I love them it's just who do I choose to spend my time with? Who do I choose to share?

00:32:40:17 - 00:33:01:07
Phebe
You know what I'm working through and growing through, especially when you're in those challenging seasons because those engines will help you even when you're going through tough stuff, which, as you know, we've shared like some of the stuff I'm going through right now. I'm just so grateful for having engines who are there to help lift me up and to say like, you can still do this, you can still move through this hard season that you're going through.

00:33:01:07 - 00:33:26:11
Phebe
And the second piece would just be gratitude. Even when you're going through tough stuff, how do you find those little moments to hold on to, to be grateful for? Because it just helps you shift that perspective. And sometimes that's all you need, especially when you're going through a very challenging season. And that's something that I've been doing, you know, and holding on to through this next phase, if you will, is just finding those moments of gratitude to be grateful for and hold on tight to those.

00:33:27:07 - 00:33:41:15
Jennifer
That's get engines and anchors. I like it. It's good. I was thinking about the little engine that curves. I'm like, I think I can. I think it's great. I think it's a great way to remember it for me because I think it engines at anchors and I like that.

00:33:41:15 - 00:33:42:13
Phebe
No, that's great.

00:33:42:14 - 00:33:56:06
Jennifer
That's great. You need anchor anchor people in your life. But I don't think that they're the people that keep you safe and they keep you grounded and they keep you here. They're not going to be the people that put you into the space when you're needing to dream and go to that next level. So I love that. Thank you for sharing.

00:33:56:06 - 00:34:17:03
Jennifer
I think it's great. Phoebe, you're awesome. I love what you're doing. Congratulations on all your success. I think. I think. Yeah, I mean, you're lighting up, and I like that you're enjoying what you're doing because I think that's important that we have to truly enjoy what we do. Because when we're convicted about what we're trying to put out there in the world, the messaging, then that comes through in our in our authenticity, in the work that we create.

00:34:17:03 - 00:34:25:12
Jennifer
So I love it. If our audience want to get in touch with you, maybe they want to find these books. They want to reach out to you, follow you, who knows? Where do you want us to send them?

00:34:25:20 - 00:34:40:04
Phebe
Yeah. You can check out my website. Never quit on a bad day. Dot com as. Well, as I'm on Facebook, Instagram never quit on a bad day. And I'd love to connect. I'd love to hear what they're working on, how I can cheer them on and support them and just, yeah, encourage people. Go after your goals and dreams.

00:34:40:04 - 00:34:43:04
Phebe
They're there for the taking. So it's just a matter of going forward.

00:34:43:10 - 00:34:57:15
Jennifer
I like your your website domain, by the way. I saw your email when it came through. I don't know that I paid attention to it the first time, but I saw it today and I'm like, This is cute. I like it. Deborah quit on a bad day like it still works. Thank you to our audience. We appreciate you.

00:34:57:15 - 00:35:12:03
Jennifer
Thank you for tuning in. And if you enjoy the show, head on over to Apple. You can give us a review over there and of course, hit that subscribe button on the YouTube so we can keep sharing all these awesome stories about these awesome people. And as I always say, in order to live the extraordinary, you must start.

00:35:12:04 - 00:35:36:03
Jennifer
Now, start begins with a decision. You guys take care, be safe, be kind to one another. And we will see you next time.