Jennifer: 0:26

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers. I'm your host, Jennifer Loehding, and we are talking to the achievers, the creators, the magic makers and the dreamers. These are our friends, these are your friends and they are living the extraordinary Well. I am so excited about my guest today. This is going to be so much fun. I have been waiting to chat with them since the first time I met them. I love what they're doing. I love their story, their mission, all of it. They are a father-son team that created a social enterprise with a mission to spread happiness makes my heart happy hearing this. They bootstrapped their business into the world's largest sock store, with multi-million dollar revenues, and they've been named EI's Entrepreneur of the Year. I think what I love about this story even more is what they're doing, but one of the entrepreneurs in this journey is a 27-year-old entrepreneur with Down syndrome. I love their mission. I love what they're doing. We're going to welcome them on in just a minute, but we got to do a quick shout-out to our sponsor.

Jennifer: 1:23

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Jennifer: 2:06

John and Mark Cronin are the creators of John's Crazy Socks. Together, they are showing what people with differing abilities can do, because more than half of their colleagues have a differing ability, which I think is so amazing what they're doing. They're fierce advocates for inclusion, having testified twice before the US Congress and spoken at the United Nations. They're sought after keynote speakers and they've recorded two TEDx talks and are frequent guests on network television. They say they create a unique customer experience and develop a workplace culture that leads to an engaged workforce and, additionally, they show their gratitude through their Giving Back program, which has raised now over 650,000 for charity partners. So, Mark and John, welcome to Behind the Dreamers. I'm so excited to have you both here today.

John: 2:55

Thank you very much. I'm really pleased to hear Thank you.

Mark: 2:58

We are excited to be here. Thank you for having us on, though.

Jennifer: 3:07

John has been aging, so he's now 28.

Mark: 3:11

Well, happy birthday, john.

Jennifer: 3:12

We messed that up, didn't?

Mark: 3:13

we Thank you very much, but you are a dreamer.

John: 3:19

I am dreaming how I can be. You're living the dream.

Jennifer: 3:26

I'm so excited and unfortunately, yes, that age thing does catch us every time. It doesn't wait on us, does it? We wake up and it's a new year Every time I turn around, I feel at least.

Mark: 3:36

Well, it's better than the alternative of not having birthdays.

Jennifer: 3:39

I agree, I agree. All right, so let's talk about this, because you guys are dreamers and that's what this show is about and we have so much to talk about. But I want to start off. Tell us a little bit about John's Crazy Socks. Tell us how this came about for you both.

Mark: 3:54

Well, we'll tell the story. Yeah, dad, go back to the fall of 2016. And our story starts in a small log cabin in the woods. No, no, it starts on suburban Long Island, outside New York City, in a town called Huntington. And where were you?

John: 4:17

I was at a hunting house. It could be my last school.

Mark: 4:22

So you mentioned that John has Down syndrome. Yes, I am. If you have a disability, you can say in the school system until you are the graduate or turn 21. And then you go over what's known as the 21 year old cliff, because when you're in school, everything is right there in front of you All your classes, therapies. For many, that's where they get their food, it's daycare, but once you're done, you're on your own. So John was getting ready to leave school, yes, and you were trying to figure out, like everybody else, what comes next, what were you looking at?

John: 5:03

I looked at jobs programs school. I can't find programs that I don't like.

Mark: 5:10

Didn't find anything that I liked. And this, jennifer, is an unfortunate reality. Yeah, that you're starting enough opportunities for people with different abilities, but John, here he's a natural entrepreneur. You didn't see a job you wanted. What did you?

John: 5:25

say? I said I want a career, I want to make one. I told my dad I would go business with him A nice father and son being together.

Mark: 5:34

I love it. It's pretty cool. I've got three boys.

John: 5:37

Yeah, you are. I'm a lucky man, right, yeah, yeah.

Mark: 5:41

Three boys, and this is one I could work with.

John: 5:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark: 5:46

So then we had to figure out what were we going to do, and you have a lot of ideas right you can do how we can tell that John is thinking hard.

John: 5:57

I smoke in my ears.

Mark: 5:58

Smoke comes out of his ears. So what was one of your ideas?

John: 6:05

One of it a fun store.

Mark: 6:08

Fun store. I kept asking him what would we sell in a fun store? Yeah, he said I don't know. It would be fun. What was another idea you had?

John: 6:18

Yes, I thought A food truck, an idea for a movie called Chef and one of the actors, john Farrow. It's neat really about father and son bonding a food truck.

Mark: 6:36

So you know everybody out there, you've eaten at food trucks. Yeah, we really love food trucks. We're thinking what could we make? Where would we put the food truck? But we ran into a problem. We can't cook, yeah, we can't cook. So, yes, but then right before Thanksgiving the US Thanksgiving in November, john, you had your week of moments.

John: 7:02

Yes, I was so crazy socks. Why socks? It's fun, it's colorful, it's creative, it always let me be me. I want crazy socks my whole life.

Mark: 7:17

So we figured this, jennifer. If he loved them that much, surely other people would too. Yeah, we could find those people, so you already had the name, I can name it.

John: 7:27

I told him I'm sorry, can I use?

Mark: 7:30

We went the lean startup route. We said let's just get something up and going, let's take action. So we built a website, got a little bit of inventory. The only marketing we did was to set up a Facebook page and I would take out my cell phone and we made videos. And who do you think was in those videos?

John: 7:50

I am. I talk about socks, Socks, socks and more socks. I love it.

Mark: 7:56

But we noticed people started sharing those videos. Yes, and we opened in mid-December not knowing what to expect, and on the very first day we got a flood of orders. We got 42 orders Wow, but most of them were local. We lived in Huntington. He's in high school. We had temporary office space there, so we decided to do home deliveries. We got red boxes, put the socks in the box and what did you add to that?

John: 8:29

A second note for me and candy. A thank you note and candy.

Mark: 8:33

Oh, Loaded up, the car drove around and you knocked on door's delivering socks. Yes, I did. How did customers?

John: 8:41

respond. They loved the socks. I took a picture with me, a customer and the box of socks and shared on the street over here. We had a good experience.

Mark: 8:54

We had customers ordering again, just to get John to come back to their door.

Jennifer: 8:58

To get him to come to the door. Love it.

Mark: 9:00

And there were some funny moments right. Just the two of us doing all this. So it's after 10 o'clock at night and John's not going on doors. Just John with your socks, Excuse me.

Jennifer: 9:14

I'm just bringing the socks. Oh my God.

Mark: 9:17

So by the end of that month really two weeks we had shipped 452 orders Wow, and we knew we had something. Yeah, we didn't know how fast it would grow, we didn't know how big it would grow, but we knew we could grow a business. Today, how many socks do we have?

John: 9:35

We have 4,000 different kinds of socks.

Mark: 9:40

That means John owns the world's largest socks store.

Jennifer: 9:43

Yeah, they are Wow Wow.

Mark: 9:45

We've been able to create 34 jobs. 22 are held by people with different abilities. We've shipped 450,000 packages to 88 different countries and we're now over $700,000 in the money raised for our charity partners.

John: 10:03

And you like to say I just say sickest diet Just gets sickest yes.

Jennifer: 10:09

I love it. This is such a good, warm, fuzzy story. I love it. These are the stories I love. I think this is so amazing and, you know, that's what I think makes the world go around, or stories like this and I love what I really. I love that you guys took this dream, and John kudos to you for making your own dream, figuring it out yourself, right, like, if you can't find a job, you just create your own job. That's what it's about. That's the entrepreneur spirit. I love it. And then not only that taking this company and growing it from the ground up Grassroots effort, you know and understanding the value of customer service and then creating this culture within your organization. You know, I love all of the pieces to this story.

Mark: 10:51

We've been very fortunate. You know, and it's interesting you talk about you know the dreamers we remind ourselves and our colleagues all the time. We get to live a dream, we get to run an organization the way you would dream about doing, and we have no excuses. We can't blame it on headquarters, we can't blame it on the board. It's just us, and if we want to do something we can do it, you know, and you wind up having an obligation to those dreams.

Jennifer: 11:31

I agree, yeah, good stuff, good business. So I love to know, john, what's been the best part of this for you. What have you loved about this? What's been what's been most fun in all this?

John: 11:45

The most fun of this business is that I speak up and I speak up other people and I try to find what color can do. I like having more people with our different abilities. It's fun about it. I think it's fun about it because I have a job created.

Mark: 12:21

Right, create the jobs that then show in the world, right, yes, yeah.

Jennifer: 12:27

Well, you created. When you go back to the story, when you were talking about create the fun job, you created the fun job. You just had to figure out what the fun was going to be and you guys kind of created that right. So you brought that whole element into what you're doing now.

Mark: 12:41

Well, people often ask, John, what's the favorite thing you do on the job?

Jennifer: 12:47

Yeah.

Mark: 12:48

And then he just lists everything he does.

Jennifer: 12:51

Probably I could see that. Yeah Well, I think this is so awesome, what a great story. I mean, I think it's hard to start a business right. It's always hard to go in those beginning grounds and get into that. But then once you find it and you guys found that thing, those socks I love it.

Mark: 13:10

In many ways, the easiest part is getting started. Yeah, once you start growing, then in lots of ways it becomes more challenging and you have more obligations to more people. But getting started it's. You know, our biggest enemy is ourselves. Our biggest problem is between our ears. That's where I'm incredibly fortunate to have a partner like John who's just okay, we'll go do this. There are always folks that will look at a situation and tell you why it's too hard and it can't work, and it's too expensive and we're not ready. And then there are those people that roll up their sleeves and say, okay, what do we do? Yeah, how do we get this done?

Jennifer: 14:06

And.

Mark: 14:06

I see John being in that person. I'll give you an anecdote of a story that I think exemplifies this. So we go back to January of 2017 and we were learning firsthand nobody buys anything in January because they spent all their money at the Alvedas Right and we're trying to figure out how can we sell socks, which is getting started, and that's when we learned that people wear crazy socks to celebrate World Down Syndrome Day. When's World Down Syndrome Day?

John: 14:40

World Down Syndrome Day is March 21st.

Mark: 14:43

Okay, because you get Down Syndrome by having an extra 21st chromosome. I've heard the audience that all of us humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. People with Down Syndrome have an extra have a third 21st chromosome. Okay, so the third month, 21st day, is World Down Syndrome Day. All right, and it turns out people wear crazy socks to celebrate that. You would have thought we knew that in advance, but we weren't that smart, so at that time we were only selling socks made by other people. So we go looking for a Down Syndrome themed sock that we could sell. Nobody made one. But what does my partner say? Let's make it. If nobody makes one, what do you say?

John: 15:31

I said I want to clean one, I want to make one.

Mark: 15:34

And he designed the world's first Down Syndrome awareness sock because, okay, we'll go do it. And for John it was so obvious and simple. And here's the neat thing. So now we have a whole line of Down Syndrome themed products, but this year we made the official sock of World Down Syndrome Day, working with the National Down Syndrome Society and Down Syndrome International. It's a pair of socks designed by a young woman with Down Syndrome and made a company owned by a man with Down Syndrome. So it's pretty cool and funds from that are going to go to Down Syndrome International and the National Down Syndrome Society.

Jennifer: 16:28

That's a great story, yes, and you know everybody needs a cheerleader, mark right, and you guys are a great duo team. I think that you know, in business, it's great when you can have you guys have such a dynamic force here, because it's so great when you can have, you know, the pragmatic and the dreamer come together to create a business that works, and so I think it's great that you both are dreamers, I know, but I think it's fun when you have a great motivator back there to keep you moving.

Mark: 16:56

It is, and you know we we have different approaches, john. John carries the bail money and keeps me out of trouble. John is the one who likes to follow rules.

John: 17:09

Thank, you father.

Mark: 17:12

Mark's like no rules we we've been fortunate to return to some of the schools that John attended and in fact we're on advisory board for the tech school and we go back and the teachers and the principal in particular, they're also glad to see John. Yes, and and then he says to me so, dad, when you were in school, were the principals happy to see you? And I'm like, well, there used to be this chair outside their office and it would be okay, mr Crown, and what you do today.

Jennifer: 17:53

They're not quite as happy, john, right, they want to see you. I love it. This is such a good story. I love it. So you guys done some TEDx talks. You're speaking all over the place, right?

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Mark: 19:09

Well, part of our mission and John was talking about it we want to show the world what people with different abilities can do. Yes, and that gets made manifests in everything we do. So we start with John. Mm-hmm, you up down syndrome.

John: 19:25

Yeah, I have downed room down. It's wrong and never put me back.

Mark: 19:31

No, awesome we don't put John in the back.

John: 19:34

I could be in the front.

Mark: 19:36

I'll be a fit at the company it's the face of the business and then we hire people with different abilities and we could dive into that if you want, you know. But you know, just just know we don't give out jobs. Yeah, everybody works. Hairs earn that job. If you get to know us, you'll find that John here is a very nice guy. Yeah, yeah, I am not. If you're gonna work here, you got to produce. So, is that? But that's not enough. We want the world to see, so we create content all the time for our social media platform. Okay, you're always making videos. I do you like making those tiktok videos? Yeah, I think he's got like 65 70,000 followers.

Jennifer: 20:21

I'm good for you. A million on facebook yeah that's awesome.

Mark: 20:26

We host tours. Okay, so we've had more than 2000 People come through here on a tour, mostly High school students and clients from social service agencies. We host work groups. In fact, right before we came in here, john was welcoming a work group this afternoon. Okay, it's group of students that will come once a week spend an hour or two here. You just get some experience Of working. But they get to come and see people like them who are working or starting a business, and that's very important. It gets to be encouraging.

Mark: 21:05

We take on speaking engagements. Look at this, jennifer, you have us on your podcast. How fortunate are we To tell the stories, to show don't tell as to why it's good business to hire people with different abilities. Yeah, and yes, we do a lot of speaking engagements. You like that right? You like to travel? Yeah, and I think every time John Stands up in front of an audience, he helps change people's minds. People's minds yeah, and we also do advocacy work. Um, we're fortunate, because of the business, people will listen to us. Yeah, and that creates an obligation to speak up. So, yes, we're testified twice before congress, given the way things are. We have to add we were not subpoenaed, we went willingly.

Mark: 22:00

Hey um, we meet with elected officials To push on legislation to advance the rights of people with different abilities. I mean, I'll give you an example, another fun story. We were down on Capitol Hill one day, yeah, and a customer from Houston called the office and said you know, my mother works on Capitol Hill and she's a big fan of John's. Do you think she can meet John? And our colleagues said sure, here's mark cell number. Have your mother text her information. Well, who was mine?

John: 22:39

Nancy Pelosi.

Mark: 22:40

Nancy Pelosi.

John: 22:41

Oh.

Mark: 22:42

So now we go get to meet with Nancy Pelosi and and we're in a bad way in this country, yeah, too often If we disagree with you, we vilify you, we tear you down, we lose the sense of humanity. So I don't care where you are in the political spectrum. Nancy Pelosi at her art Is an 80 year old Italian grandmother. We go in. She greets John so warmly and it's so nice and you know how it is. You watch how people treat your children.

Mark: 23:19

Yeah, you know, and she takes out pictures of socks that she had given former president bush bush the elder, because john you and president bush had become, somewhat famously, sock buddies. Right, they exchanged letters and socks, and all this is warm and wonderful. But you see, we now have this opportunity, so then it's. But, miss Pelosi, we do have to talk to you about repealing Section 14c of the fair labor standard act that allows employers to pay people with their disability as little as five cents an hour. So we get that opportunity. We have to speak up about that, gotcha, and you roll all that together and you get John's crazy socks yes, absolutely.

Jennifer: 24:10

I love it. Wow, such a yeah, lee. Thanks for sharing all of that. So, yeah, I can see how this is keeping you busy too, trying to do all these things and and get the message out there and the traveling and keeping up with the business and well.

Mark: 24:26

Was it two weeks ago, two, three weeks ago? We're driving to an early morning talk. Yeah, I'm going to speak to a business group and john who's not really a morning person, okay, but but he's sitting in the car next to me and you looked over and what do you say? Do you remember? Yes, what? No, not that, not that. I thought. If you say that sometimes, you said I love being an entrepreneur, you did you. Oh, I'm sorry, right, you said I love being an entrepreneur. And he looked at, he was looking at his calendar. John's very organized. And you said I have important things to do from 8 o'clock this morning till 9 o'clock tonight. That's right, how fortunate are we to?

Mark: 25:09

have things to do that matter I?

John: 25:12

love it, the people, and you love it, right, I do.

Jennifer: 25:16

This is so awesome. Yeah, so, and I love like you mentioned you we've talked about this several times this your culture, that you created within your company, and I love that you said you were not that John's the nice one when you met and you're not with people that work there. So tell us what limit about this culture there? What's it like working at John's crazy socks?

Mark: 25:36

Well, we are a mission-driven organization. What's our mission? Sprit happiness, and that drives everything we do. And what do you say? The keys to happen. Try to into follows gratitude to for others, and we built it on five pillars inspiration and hope it's been and hope.

John: 25:58

Give it back. Find products you can love, make it personal, make it complete to us make it a great place to work.

Mark: 26:06

So let's take that make it a great place to work.

John: 26:09

Yeah.

Mark: 26:10

We have five kind of pieces to that one. Or for people, a mission worthy of their commitment, something bigger than ourselves, yeah, something that matters, something you can feel proud about, and it can't just be we're gonna make money. Right, and don't get me wrong, we want to make money. It turns out we like to live indoors. You got to pay that rent right and then to Make sure everybody knows why his or her job matters. There is no cog in the machinery. There is no make-work job. Everybody's job is important, everybody's contributing to that mission. I've had friends who own other businesses a come on mark. That's a lot of malarkey. How could everybody's job be? And I look at them, say, well, if the job's not important, if it doesn't matter, why are they on your payroll?

Jennifer: 27:12

Yeah.

Mark: 27:14

Right. People need to know that. They need to understand that connection. Three Put people in a position to succeed. Don't ask someone to do what they can't do. John does many things, but we don't ask him to manage our finances. Yeah, and Give people the support they need so they can do great work. All right. If Kenny, our lead packer, needs a particular chair, why don't we get him that chair? Yeah, if Nick, our webmaster, needs a tool for the website, why don't we get it from it's? We can't do everything. We're a small business. We don't have endless resources but give people what they need to work for.

Mark: 27:59

Say thank you. I think we're going to be able to recognize the work people do. Don't you like it, jennifer, when someone looks at you and says you know I was listening at podcast, you do a great job getting guests and prepping and asking questions? We would like to be recognized. Just, it's part of that gratitude. We are fortunate to have the people that we you know on our team to get to work with them. They're the ones that make everything possible. And then five Stay the hell out of the way. I like it that people do their jobs, yeah, right. So if you do all of those things and just if you believe in that, you'll create a workplace that people want to be here and they thrive.

Jennifer: 28:49

Those are good, good lessons. Thank you for sharing, and you and I agree with all of them. I do think it's important and I think a lot of companies Miss the mark on that because they're too busy micromanaging and putting people in the wrong places. You know, I love all those points that you brought up. Do you guys have those plastered up on your wall somewhere? Just you, just all know them.

Mark: 29:09

We, we, we share those. We talk about them all the time. Yeah, you know the spreading happiness. That's the criteria we use to determine our budgets. It's allocation of resources, how we're going to approach things. The idea of gratitude Is built into so much of what we do. You have to keep repeating it. You got to keep getting in front of people. You'll know. You'll know, you believe. When you're willing to spend money over or give up money over, you give up revenue.

Jennifer: 29:48

Well, this is such a you know it's interesting. This is such a um. I had this conversation with somebody earlier that I was talking about and we were talking about what creates successful Entrepreneurs as a whole and we were talking about and you're gonna love, I think you guys are gonna love this, because we talked about Finding your talents, finding where you're good, pairing that with your, your values, right, and then connecting with people. We talked that was like the summation of what we came up through in our point of conversation and that's what I feel like when I talk to people all the time. These are like the overarching, you know, the overarching values. The things that come up are kind of similar, but I love it. You guys touched upon all the important things and I love the spreading happiness because I think in environments when people are happy and they feel valued and they feel important, they feel heard, they do better work, they show up differently.

Mark: 30:42

They do, and if you take care of people, they'll take care of you. I I shared something yesterday yes, sir, I know, linked in we're. We're a long island outside New York City and we got six entries of snow or something city, and it had me thinking of a snow day. Oh, a couple of decades ago. I'm old, so I go back ways, um, and at the time I was leading a healthcare management firm, okay, and we provided management services for each of Moe's and and managed care plans around the country, though it was based on long island, you know, customer service, claims processing and provider supported things. So we had a snow day and and, um, you know our client plans and they're in all these doctors. They didn't care if it was snowing on long island, they're just one of their services.

Mark: 31:42

So I knew the snow was coming and I got up real early to get in there and start laying out contingency plans when we started missing a lot of people. Well, we had over a hundred employees and all but one showed up at work and that was a day when, you know, their kids were gonna be home, where they could have rolled over and gone back to sleep. They would have been paid, but Everybody cared enough about the work they were doing and they were treated well enough. Then everybody showed up. Wow, I was ready to weep, you know, because this is what you dream about. Yeah, and you know what could we do? Well, we ordered Chinese food and brought it in and had a big lunch together and, and at the end of the day, I've got some cakes and we celebrate it. And you could just feel how proud people were. Yeah, no snow was gonna stop us. Yeah, look what we can do. But you, to get there, you got a, you got to get by it, you got to treat people well enough that they're willing to do that.

Jennifer: 32:56

Yeah, that is so incredible. Oh, it's. It's a good story. It is, and I love what you guys are doing. I just think it's amazing. I could say that a hundred times. I think it's a great story and it's evident by the success. You know what you guys are doing out putting out into the community and the success of the business, that you're doing the right thing You're doing. You're bleeding in the right way and with the right mission and passion. So I say kudos to both of you and John. You are remarkable. I love it, thank you. I would like to know, out of all your tons of socks that you have, what's the favorite sock Like? What's the one that everybody loves?

John: 33:30

I, everybody loves, I Down these move Superheroes sock with a cape, the back and my face on the socks.

Mark: 33:42

We designed it and his face is on it. Yes To a superhero.

Jennifer: 33:47

Yes, I'm gonna have to get some of them. Socks. It's so awesome. I love it. Good for you. It's such a great story. It's such a great story. Well, this has been incredible. I'd like to know, because I'm guessing that after people hear this and we get this thing up, he would be like where do we find these crazy socks? I want to get a pair. Maybe they want to follow you guys and watch your story and what you're doing. Where do we want to send them?

John: 34:11

And and where do they find us? I go at John's crazy socks calm.

Mark: 34:18

John's crazy socks, calm and and here's the deal, you're gonna get socks that let you express yourself. Right, you like to say they, let me be me. Yes, you're gonna get great socks. We have over 30,000 five-star reviews. But it's more than that. When you buy from us, you help us employ people with different abilities, you help us give back right, we start with 5% going to a special Olympic special Olympics but most of all, help us spread happiness. You put those socks on. They're gonna make you feel good gonna be happy.

Jennifer: 34:57

I love it. Yeah, it's such a good story. I can talk to you guys forever. This is such a great story. I can't wait to get this out. I'm excited. It's so much fun. John, keep doing your thing, keep spreading happiness and keep cheering on your friends and colleagues and encouraging people to do great things, because that's what this is all about.

John: 35:14

Thank you so much, it's been fun.

Jennifer: 35:17

It's been fun, okay. And what we'll do when this gets ready to go out, we get all our little bells and whistles on there. We'll make sure we get you guys tagged and everybody knows where to find in. Make sure our audience knows to go pick out some socks I'm gonna get on there. I want to go see your stuff I looked at some of. I want to get back in there so I can follow you guys and keep up with all your. Your good happiness.

Mark: 35:38

Let us know when you publish it. We'll share it on our website and on our social media too. Absolutely and if there's ever something we can do for you, jennifer, let us know.

Jennifer: 35:47

We'll do, we'll do all right. Well, it's been great. I'm so excited for you guys and I think it's. This is such a good story, so do with that. I do want to say to her audience if you enjoy the show, head on over to Apple, give us a review over there, hit that, subscribe on YouTube so we can keep sharing all these incredible, amazing stories. They're fun, and with that, I always say in order to live the extraordinary, you must start, and every start begins with a decision. You guys, take care, be safe, be kind to one another and we will see you next time.